Wednesday, April 20, 2005

food for thought

Tuesday, 19 April 2005
20 19

Foreword: This is just some thoughts organised into words. It’s quite a lot of theology, but I thought it may be helpful to better understand Christianity. Part of this is also what I learn from a discussion on Saturday with some PUNJ guys, namely Desmond and Sui, so part of the credit will go to them. I would not dare declare that what I am going to write is entirely and perfectly true. After all, who can fathom the plans of the Lord our Creator? Whatever mistake is the fault of mine and mine alone. Do reply should you find disagreements. I would be glad to hear.

A few terms that this entry will be based on

God’s sovereignty
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and is the essence of perfection, of holiness. He is our Creator, and with his power, he controls his creation, and thus the adjective sovereign. After all, if a Creator can’t control what he creates, he’s useless a Creator. And certainly the Lord is not.

Man’s responsibility
Out of love, God grants Man a freedom of choice. It’s man’s choice whether to choose God, or return to his sinful ways, rejecting the hand of mercy stretched to him.

The questions.

  1. If God’s sovereign, to what extent is Man responsible for his own salvation? In the gospels, we read about the Pharisees and the Jews who rejected Christ and eventually caused the death of the Son of God as well. Yet if they did not do that, surely God’s salvation plan to save the word would not be fulfilled. Therefore, did God cause them to sin, in his sovereignty?

  2. As what Paul had mentioned in his letters to the churches, a Christian should be assured of salvation. How does one know that he is a Christian then? It’s by faith in Jesus Christ. Then how does one know he is saved? Therefore, indirectly, are we even assured at all?

The answers (or rather theological answers by Man)

There are two concepts that are thought of to solve this issue. Arminianism and Calvinism

Arminaism maintains that God predestines, but not in an absolute sense. The line of thinking is that God looks into the future to see who will choose Him and so chooses him to be saved. Thus it’s the choice of Man to be saved or not.

As what Desmond says, this doesn’t at all depicts God’s sovereignty. If Arminianism is true, then God is not sovereign, i.e. he is after all choosing based on Man’s decisions. He is not in control.

Calvinism on the other hand is more biblically based. It’s known by an acronym – TULIP.
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible grace
Perseverance of the Saints.

Total Depravity
The inclinations of Man is sin. Man is completely sinful. And this fallen nature will not permit us to choose God. Therefore, we are reborn not by our choice, but by God’s grace.

Unconditional Election
Out of this love and kindness, God elect some to be saved. This election is unconditional, God didn’t select from the best or look into the future or whatever.

Limited Atonement
Jesus died for all, but his death is only effective for the elect.

Irresistible Grace
When God elect the people that he wants to save, the people could never reject his call.

Perseverance of the saints
Salvation can never be lost. It is secured when God elected.

How then does human responsibility comes into play? Put it this way, when you believe, it somehow means you are elected. How do we know we believe? Simply because of the doctrine of predestination; you are saved when you are elected. As you can see, I didn’t exactly answer the first question. There is no answer, not from Man at least.

Like what a pastor says, God’s sovereignty and Man’s responsibility are like two parallel train tracks. They seem never to meet. Yet if you look in the distance, you can see the tracks running into the horizon and there, they seem to meet. When we get to heaven, we’ll see how these two work together in the wise plan of God.

Sources:
http://www.mslick.com/tulip.htm

5 Comments:

Blogger Dawn said...

doesn't this bring us back to punj camp last year where there was a debate on whether its ultimately up to us if we want to choose God or God has already chosen us from the very beginning (can't remember what the term was called :S)

and a conclusion was never reached and prolly wont ever be. but i dunno, i myself tend to believe the former, that its up to us ourselves to choose to follow God. and perhaps in places in the bible where it says like "God's chosen people" where it seems to suggest that God had a chosen few from the start, maybe it refers to those who at the end chose to follow him..? God chose us because we chose him. hm. or is it supposed to be the other way. zz. i'm confused too. aha.

but that's what i tend to think.

hm. good entry anyway. keep it up. :)

and to your comment on my blog. what is the point in helping animals. as in, i dont mean it the way it sounds. but sometimes i just think shouldn't i be doing something more.. to glorify God. as in. not that being a vet doesn't glorify God, but perhaps ministry. and yet like what sui said, not everyone is made for ministry which is yar. but i guess i'm just at a stage where i'm wondering what i really wanna do in the future.

6:55 PM  
Blogger shadow said...

Hey Sherman, don't think we actually have the freedom of choice. Just had a discussion on this recently too! (Must be 1 Peter and Romans!) May be this will help explain why i think we've got no free will, but only the will to choose to do evil?
http://thebookofshadow.blogspot.com/2005/04/predestination.html

7:30 PM  
Blogger Dawn said...

this is confusing me. lol. so everyone is saying that we chose God because God chose us. and that there are people who will never choose God because God didn't choose them.

just to clarify..

so from the beginning God created man to love and worship him and to help rule the earth. and God gave us the choice to sin? which from the start we did so everyone else later sinned. and God, being loving, chose a select few to save and not the rest because he is also a just God..

thats how i interprete all this..? correct me if i'm wrong.

11:18 AM  
Blogger Dawn said...

huh. innocenia. i'm even more confused. aha.

what i get out from what u said is that God created a group of people who will choose him and a group who wouldn't so as to give us "free will"

but since God is all knowing, in a way he chose us already so we dont really have a choice whether we want to choose Him or not. so wheres the free will.

and it kinda contradicts the fact that God is a loving God cos it sounds like he's doing it just for kicks. haha. okay perhaps not to that extreme but seems weird to say that God would create people who he knows will go to hell just to give the other group of people "free will"

aha. :S hmm.

9:49 PM  
Blogger Dawn said...

aha. err. the past two comments. isn't it still going round and round. still saying the same thing.

still doesn't answer my original question.. "and it kinda contradicts the fact that God is a loving God cos it sounds like he's doing it just for kicks. haha. okay perhaps not to that extreme but seems weird to say that God would create people who he knows will go to hell just to give the other group of people "free will""

or okay maybe i misunderstood what u two said. i dunno.

inocenia. my blog add is fattcatt.blogspot.com :) i take it as a compliment that you said i'm interesting. ahaha. :)

cheers.

11:47 AM  

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